Weight of an "art" pen

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Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Thu May 03, 2012 1:03 pm

Hi,

Most of you are aware of my experience with sketching. I use pens that were recommended by people here Zoe, GS, Mike.

I currently use: Lamy Safari (F), Pilot 78 G (F) and occasionally the Noodler's Flex (F).

I ink them: Lamy - Noodler's Lexington Gray, Pilot 78G - Pelikan Brown and Noodler's Flex - Pelikan Black. Most of you would think I don't need one more pen :) You are right - but I think I need one juicer pen for the brown ink (Please - please don't say.....I know....tools don't make an artist - art does - but occassionally I feel like purchasing art stuff :oops:)

One alternative is the Parker Frontier available in India (about $10) - but to me it felt a "heavier pen". For those of you who have used the above Lamy/Pilot 78G/Noodler's Flex - I'd say they all fall roughly in the same "weight category" whereas the Parker Frontier is about twice as heavy (atleast it feels like it).

So question is: Are the "art" pens (I'm not very knowledgeable - but I'm thinking the "Sailor" types) - are they light like the Lamy, Pilot 78G etc? Would you normally recommend a lighter fountain pen over heavier for sketching?

I logically think: Pencil was the tool for drawing, so obviously a pen used for drawing should logically be light like a pencil. So - extension - a heavier pen may not be suitable for drawing.

If the answer is yes - then I'd be better off importing a medium nib PILOT 78G which I liked a lot. The Lamy is my other favorite and available here in India - but just sometimes - I feel the traingular shaped holding area awkward. I'd be happier with a round surface.

Appreciate your patience dealing with my questions!

rajesh
Last edited by RajeshS on Fri May 04, 2012 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby mike » Thu May 03, 2012 2:44 pm

Yes for me,I like a light weight pen for drawing it feels more subtle in use.Another factor is that drawing often involves short, little stabbing motions to make stipling or shorter lines in textures-a heavy pen with its' own weight behind it can blot when used vigourously in this way-Arhhh disaster!
I certainly wont tell you that it the artist not the tool in this instance because each pen model has an entirely different feel & it's a very personal thing.Different feed rates & line widths, smoothness etc.
There is no standardisation in nib widths between two countries or even two manufacturers in the same country,getting what you want can be frustrating.
With the pens you have mentioned here are some factor to consider-Japanese fine nibs(Sailor.Pilot) = one size down from western fine nibs (Parker). Lamy are out on their own being about a half to one size up on western nib sizes ! Sailor always make a juicy pen but you may want a medium to ensure it is similar in width to your parker.Pilot pens Again buy a medium if you want a fronteir fine line width BUT Pilots are not juicy at all.A lamy medium nib has a very thick line very much broader than your present parker-it may be a step further than you were intending to take.I doubt you will be dissapointed if you went for the Sailor in a medium nib,the only possible reservation is that Sailors are known to have a very smooth nib & some artists like a bit of tooth( drag/feel) on their nib.
If you go to fountainpennetwork web site there are tests on all these pens including the weight & possiblly samples of the line they make, etc
Cheers
Mike
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby ghdalton » Thu May 03, 2012 4:16 pm

Rajeshs, I think it is simply personal preference. I have both 'light' and 'heavy' pens that I use for drawing but I tend to gravitate to the heavy pens more and more as I like the substantial feel in my hand.

If you like one over the other - go for it. Nothing wrong with that. I agree with you - it is the artist, not the tools, that make the art - but the artist has to feel comfortable with the tools in order to create the art.

No way to ever know but I would bet that the cave artists in France had their 'special' brushes and sticks that they worked with more than others. As for not needing another pen? Well, I don't think you can ever have enough art supplies.
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Thu May 03, 2012 5:50 pm

Thank you Mike and George.

mike wrote:There is no standardisation in nib widths
:) Yes the Lamy fine is far more fluid and produced a heavier line than the Pilot 78G fine.

This is also a reason I bought different pen brands - it gave me some insight into this "pens" world. Mike the 'Sailor' are very high end for me now (except the HighAce Neo).

mike wrote:BUT Pilots are not juicy at all
Do you mean the medium would not be "juicer" than the Fine that I currently use? I was really hoping for something like the Lamy Fine. Do let me know. Meanwhile - I think I will vist the FPN website and check the "samples" - thanks for that suggestion

ghdalton wrote:but the artist has to feel comfortable with the tools in order to create the art.
:) :) yes George. You are very correct. Also I think both Mike and you have indicated that each pen can feel different and we need to experiment a little to find that reasonable fit and then take it from there.

Thanks - rajesh
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Zoe » Thu May 03, 2012 5:57 pm

I have mixed feelings about weight in a pen, but I do think a pen helps facilitate rather than enable a good sketch. Having a pen in one's hand that feels good, may aid in making us wish to hold it more and sketch more with it. :)

That said, I like the Carbon fountain pen, inexpensive, can take a converter, is light weight and draws like a dream and is consistent in flow. I believe it is available in India. Two drawbacks, it is longer than many, and does not post.

Another pen you might add to your arsenal is the Lamy Joy, interchangeable with the Safari nibs and converters, is also longer than the standard sizes, can easily work with any good quality ink, and comes in the italic 1.1 and up. More pricey than the above (perhaps double the price).

Even more expensive, smaller, and lightweight: the Pilot Prera with a fine nib. The Prera is the most expensive of these recommendations, takes cartridges and converter.

Or a Kaweco Sports Ice, the low end of this German brand but is so pleasurable I have one with me always. It does not however take a converter but the cartridges do come in Sepia (among my favourite colours for drawing and writing.
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby mike » Thu May 03, 2012 8:25 pm

Hi Rajesh,A pilot 78G medium would be a little bit more juicy but only cos' of the slightly wider line,it is still a very dry line for a given line width.
Lamys & parkers are juicy nibs & the Pilot giving the same line width would just not compare,a line off the two western nibs can barely contain itself! it stands up in relief when used on non absorbant paper.
This is why Pilot are my favourate pens & lamy my least liked, the reverse of your needs.For you taking wash from the line & prefering a thicker line generally ,the Pilot may not be the best choice,even at the medium size.
I find the chinese pens pretty juicy too also very cheap however they too are (generally speakimg) a size down on western pens.I could recommend some makes & models of them if you like.
You mentioned availability in India of some pens,I would be pleased to send stuff from the UK if it helps,just let me know. Cheers Mike
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Fri May 04, 2012 11:13 am

mike wrote:I would be pleased to send stuff from the UK if it helps,just let me know
Well this kind of kindness just humbles me everytime. Thank you Mike. But I'd rather not trouble anyone.

Zoe - thank you - as always your knowledge about all the stuff really always throws up options. The Carbon and Kaweco - I'd heard about here and there - but it never really registered. And now I looked them up - and do look such good pens.

I prefer pens with converters - so let just check more details on them - but thanks for opening up new brands. I checked the Kaweco and it does have such an impressive history - and it's German - so definately looks like a good brand to check out.

Mike Hmm - thanks for your experience on the ink flow differences in Lamy and Pilots. And the fact that you prefer a Pilot - is making me lean toward the Pilot 78G M. Because I liked its structure. I am just beginning to realize how wide this subject is and I guess I'm going to have to go through this a little - and experience some 'experimental' failures and successes.

Let me think on these options before requesting you to list the Chinese brands - I think between the Lamy, Pilot, Kaweco - I should be able to make a choice. The Carbon option by Zoe looks beautiful - but I may have to keep it for home use - the normal-length pens might work better for my portability needs.

[UPDATE] I looked up FountainPen network. It appears the Kaweco don't have converters :( :( It looked like a good priced option.

[UPDATE - 2] I went through FPN and there was a lot of discussion on pens for sketching. In-fact I saw GS on some posts there! So the Lamy Safari appears to be a favorite of many. The Pilot 78G was also mentioned and Mike - they concured with your views. So I think this is what I will do: I will use the Lamy I have an see if I really am ok with the shape. If I feel ok - I could just buy another Lamy. If not - then the 78G (because it has the converter and just $10) - I try with the medium nib.

But you all made me feel comfortable :) thanks - by posting you people made me feel it is ok to fuss on tools sometimes :) thanks.

rajesh
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Studio-1-f » Fri May 04, 2012 7:59 pm

Zoe, is this the Carbon fountain pen you're talking about? -----> http://www.jetpens.com/Platinum-Carbon- ... ge/pd/3851

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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Zoe » Fri May 04, 2012 9:26 pm

Yes. I like this pen so much I bought a second one; one for upstairs; one for downstairs. It writes like a dream but is frankly too long to carry around for me.

Zoe

Studio-1-f wrote:Zoe, is this the Carbon fountain pen you're talking about? -----> http://www.jetpens.com/Platinum-Carbon- ... ge/pd/3851

Jan
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Zoe » Fri May 04, 2012 9:30 pm

Rajesh,

I hope you'll let us know what you decide. :) And of course your experiences.

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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Sat May 05, 2012 8:39 am

Yes Zoe I will And the Platinum Carbon is very beautiful.


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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Zoe » Sun May 06, 2012 5:37 am

Here's a recent review I saw today about the Carbon Pen

http://www.benzilla.com/?p=4060
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Sun May 06, 2012 12:04 pm

Hey Zoe - Mike - have you heard of the LAMY CP-1 Platinum? It is selling at $56 - but it has that round handle that I would have found better than the Safari.

Do you know why it is so pricey? Is the nib very durable/flex or something?

Meanwhile - I am sketching more with my LAMY Safari directly. I am begining to think maybe it's not such a problem :) Convincing myself. If so I'll just get a Lamy Safari or the 78G Medium or both when I'm ready to buy a pen.

Mike - will the 78G BROAD be very broad compared to a Lamy F?

Zoe - the Kaweco or the Carbon would have been such good options (drool!!) if not for the cartridge-only options. I prefer the ink refilling instead of the use-and-throw refills plus the option of filling with the desired inks. The Kaweco is so suitable for portability - so small it will fit anywhere :) Actually am thinking I should try that sryinge filling method sometime.

Would it work with the Kaweco?

rajesh
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby Zoe » Sun May 06, 2012 6:06 pm

Rajesh, I have an older model of the Lamy CP1, and in fact going to sell her. The primary difference I see is it is not plastic, slimmer and probably of a heavier construction, overall. I believe it interchanges with the Safari's nib system but I'll have to pull her out and see if that is true. It does not, however, take the same converter. I believe the converter is a Z26.

I don't fuss anymore with fountain pens that I much so although I have a syringe etc. I rarely refill cartridges, but the Kaweco is such a great little carry around pen, it would be worth it to try, and I might just do that this week. I am buying one for my nearly 8 year old granddaughter for her birthday next month. She was able to handle the pen, with ease, and although her mother, my daughter, discourages me to give the children ink-y things, she agreed I could this time because it is a cartridge filler. I am just pondering which nib size for a beginner.

The Platinum Carbon pen does take a converter as well as a cartridge. I have one and bought it either at Jetpens or Goulet. It was about the same price as the pen. :)
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Re: Weight of an "art" pen

Postby RajeshS » Sun May 06, 2012 6:39 pm

Thanks Zoe :) Thanks for all this info!

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