Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Andre Jute » Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:55 pm

Alitogata wrote:Have you ever thought that art shows the character of each individual?


Art is artifice. It may be an expression of what someone aspires to be, at best. Picasso, no doubt a great artist, was an extremely nasty little man who set his women upon each other and beat them himself. My novels, if you read them straight through, will tell you nothing about me except that I'm like a chameleon, colorful but very difficult to pin down definitively, impenetrably strange except about what I choose to represent to you as art.

It's impertinent of people to want to get close to one just because you're an artist.

Alitogata wrote:Something like the thing that they say about driving.


Hah! I'm a retired racer. I used to drive sunflower yellow Porsche so that people could see me coming from far away and get the hell out of my way, and when I grew too old for Porsche I moved on to Turbo Bentley and Volvo estates to which I fitted big, brutal American engines, both good for clearing the road. In 1992 I gave up the car altogether because driving was just boring. Now, if people want me, they can come to me or send a plane.

Alitogata wrote:Do you think i.e that someone who is abstractive in his life will be same abstractive in his paintings


Perhaps some wannabes who randomly splash paint on canvas in the hope that someone will call the resulting mess a work of genius. (Of course the idiots who think anything they don't understand must have meaning beyond them are the truly insecure, not the artists, if they have any talent and sense). My experience of those "abstractionists" is that they're anything but confused: they're closely focused on the money. Real artists, who create meaningful images in whatever form of art, are often abstracted to an extent that you wouldn't believe. Novelists are engaged with the voices in their heads, artists with the images, some people (film people especially) with both. There is zero correlation between being organized in life and the ability to assemble a meaningful work of art; they're different, possibly even opposed, organizational talents. Nobody even knows whether the ability to look laterally at what is before us isn't in the case of the artist the necessary filtering of an abstracted or otherwise weird mind.

Alitogata wrote:... or a cornerist ( as Andre says) if in his/her life sticks with the details?


You haven't understood The Cornerists, though of course that is par for the course. We're used to being misunderstood. (Oh, woe, pity us! Duh!) When we're dead, the prices of our art will skyrocket... The point about selecting the most significant part of the image is to discard the irrelevant parts and details, as Rob explained earlier, and to show only the most significant (to the artist, that is, not necessarily to the viewer -- art isn't a democratic voting process). It's not about "sticking with the details" in any sense of the word, but about discarding irrelevant details before even considering what to do with what remains, which may be a gestalt or even merely something suggested by the remainder, regardless of whether the remaining details are specifically incorporated. Look at the various versions, including your own, of the photo I posted of the pink and yellow flowers and the driftwood: Jan did two whole sketches of only the driftwood, very detailed, Rob just left out the driftwood as irrelevant to his hazy-air version of the flowers (and you can bet your house, his explanation will be different from mine), I left out the flagstones, you put them in.

Does putting in the regular flagstone lines in beautiful dual-perspective suggest that Marialena has a railroad mind? Of course it doesn't! It's a ludicrous idea. (That won't stop some cheap critic, desperate to say something hurtful and controversial, from saying it, but that's a different aspect of the arts.)
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Alitogata » Thu Sep 11, 2014 5:52 pm

You take everything too literally while I'm trying to explain what I'm thinking, sometimes periphrastically, as my knowledge of English is not that good.
When I said about driving, I didn't mean that the character of someone has to do with the car that drives, but ( as it is said- not by me) that someone's character and attitude is shown behind the driving wheel, by the way s/he reacts. I meant that perhaps artistic character is shown by the way an artist use his materials and what does with them.

Abstractive are not only those who randomly splash paint, but those as well who paint less details, so give less information to the viewer of their work. A work doesn't need to be shapeless in order to be abstractive. It can just suggest things and let the viewer fill with his mind or fantasy, the information that is missing, according his own experiences and feelings.
This is a whole way to see things, and I'm asking in this specific example if there is possibility that this way of thinking can be expressed in the artist's works. I have met people living this way, not minimalistic but abstractive, whose their fillings and ideas are of the "internal combustion type" and those who are close to them have to fill the "gaps" by suggesting things.

In any case, do you believe that life style and attitude can be expressed in art and that art can suggest someone's life?

P.S. A friend of mine told me the other day, that my paintings show existential loneliness even though it seems to be a happy one. :roll:
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby mpainter » Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:35 pm

In any case, do you believe that life style and attitude can be expressed in art and that art can suggest someone's life?

I think lifestyle and attitude can be expressed in art. For example someone who paints landscapes well "probably" likes the outdoors and spends and enjoys their time outside. But that is a simplistic understanding. For many people their artistic expressions are opposite their lifestyle. To some it is a way to express something other than their norm is.
I remember watching interviews with the great painter Francis Bacon. His work is often talked about as abstract, violent, strange, etc. But when asked what he was thinking about when he painted he wasn't thinking about violence or strange things etc. He said he wasn't trying to make any statements with his images. And he found it amusing that other people labeled him and his work. He didn't even like to name a painting because it would influence the viewer.
In short every artist approaches their work differently, some artists prefer to paint their likes or dislikes. Other artists just paint and let the viewers add their own influences to the meaning of the painting.
I think we get into trouble if we try to see the artists life in the artists images. I dont think it's that simple.
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Alitogata » Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:12 am

So do you believe that artist's life style doesn't affect and influence its art? Because I think theopposite. That these two things, art and life are interrelated. I can't believe that someone with a very allegro personality, can't produce really moody and dark works of art and the opposite.. is not possible to see happy pictures from an artist in deep depression.
If now the subjects that an artist deals with, are pleasant or not for his audience, is a whole different story because I think that taste is subjective.
In any case I personally never paint something that I find unpleasant or not interesting, and I never paint something that I think that it might make the viewers of my works feel discomfort. I like to paint and sketch nice images, and I do this because I believe that people here in this country, have the need to see more beauty, as recently they see lot of ugliness around them. I don't say that I have the intention to save this world, how could I after all.. but anyway.. I'm trying my best to project a more positive attitude.
Generally we all missing positive things in our lives. We are bombarded literally with ugliness and negative information that make us unhappy though this unhappiness it isn't really part of our own lives.. ( not in all cases, but the bombarding of ugliness is mandatory for all :roll: )
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Janmew » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:57 am

I think lifestyle and attitude can be expressed in art. For example someone who paints landscapes well "probably" likes the outdoors and spends and enjoys their time outside


I love nature, but I can't draw it worth beans. When I look for things to draw they have to "speak to me" or it's just not happening. But that "speaking to me" isn't always drawn from my life or lifestyle. Often the subject does touch a chord in me about something relevant to me, but sometimes it's an intrigue about something completely opposite to myself or something I've never experienced. It was always the same with my poetry and writing .... I could write convincingly about things that were completely opposite to my own values, because I have the imagination and the ability to explore the opposite point of view. But when I was at my darkest I could never write that, and the same with drawing .... I cannot draw anything indicative of my dark moods.

I live in northern Canada. I've never seen a live lion in my life, but I really enjoy drawing them. Not for any symbolic reason, I simply decided to draw African big cats and discovered that I really like drawing lions. I go back to them over and over again. I have seen many bears and wolves in real life, on the other hand, and have no interest in drawing them at all, beyond the requisite one drawing of each that I did because I felt I should.

Anyway, I don't know if that really addresses the question. But I think to be an artist one must have an imagination and pull from that. Some works may relate to the artists life, some may not. I don't think it's an absolute. Not only is every artist not affected the same, but I think it's something that varies even among oneself.
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby RajeshS » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:18 pm

Elva wrote:Hi Rajesh .... I'm going to take exception to that statement!. You are definitely original. ....You've put the work in and the results are lovely.


Hi Elva - Firstly apologies for responding so late

Thank you so much - I don't know how else to say this - I respect your art and the "person" behind it

If you say this - then I am honored - thank you

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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby RajeshS » Wed Sep 24, 2014 4:24 pm

Andre Jute wrote:...But the good news is that if for the first twenty years or so you don't bother with what people think, you actually stand a chance of developing an individual style and amounting to something lasting.


Well said! When I first drew birds - I knew there was just a long way to go. On this forum - Elva draws birds. I saw sketches by artists like the John Busby and Muir Laws....trouble is .... I want to sketch like them!! Now that I said that - I know I have to face ridicule and laughs :)

But internally I know - it may take....exactly like you say....20 years before I get there - but its ok with me :)

So deep within I know...again like you say....I stand a slim chance (of drawing something that is some tiny tiny fraction of a bird sketched from life by the greats) and this gives me that strength to go on :)

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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Andre Jute » Wed Sep 24, 2014 11:33 pm

Your chances must be a good deal better than "slim", Rajesh, because you're demonstrably a grafter, and willing to learn from anyone, but have a firm idea of where you want to arrive, something like the work of the outstanding artists you have chosen as models.
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Alitogata » Sun Sep 28, 2014 12:28 pm

Have you noticed that the paintings or sketches that we personally love the most and think that are closer to our creative vision are not those that have the greatest impact on others or like them most? I have seen that happen many times. The paintings that I think that are ( my ) best not being evaluated the same from others.
I wonder sometimes if that means that there is some kind of gap between what we want to "say" to people and what we manage to say in the very end. And I don't know if this is a "technical" problem, ( not being skilled enough to paint what I'm thinking), or some kind of communication problem, ( I paint accurately what I want to say, but those who see my work don't get the message).
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Andre Jute » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:10 am

Alitogata wrote:Have you noticed that the paintings or sketches that we personally love the most and think that are closer to our creative vision are not those that have the greatest impact on others or like them most? I have seen that happen many times. The paintings that I think that are ( my ) best not being evaluated the same from others.
I wonder sometimes if that means that there is some kind of gap between what we want to "say" to people and what we manage to say in the very end. And I don't know if this is a "technical" problem, ( not being skilled enough to paint what I'm thinking), or some kind of communication problem, ( I paint accurately what I want to say, but those who see my work don't get the message).


That's a common experience of artists.
1. If an artist is worth anything at all, his reach will exceed his grasp. That is, he will want to express more than his current skills permit.
2. People see things differently. If they all saw like the artist, there would be no need for the artist. It follows that the artist cannot expect them all to "get it".
3. Also, though this may feed your insecurity, It's arrogant to think you really know, definitively and exhaustively, at the forefront of your brain, what you want to express. There is every likelihood that what you actually express on the paper is what your subconscious wants you to express.

I had a recent rather agreeable lesson in how even experts in the arts don't always "see right". I worked for 13 years on IDITAROD, and nearly died three times during the research conducted in hostile situations within spitting distance of the Arctic Circle. This was at a time when I published two "big bestselling thrillers" a year, meaning fat, high-profit tomes, and IDITAROD was, to quote one of my publishers, "a $%^&*(* little novel for teenage girls who dream of running huskies in one of the toughest races in the world, a ^&*(&*()(*&^ waste of Andre's valuable time." My American publishers said, "Where's Alaska?" -- they really, sincerely didn't want to know. The novel was published, earned nothing like the half-million I had invested in research, and died. 21 years later I republished it, and discovered it always had a fan club of people entirely outside the orbit of the experts -- big city, big-tme publishers -- who condemned the time I spent on it as a waste. Read what Kathleen Valentine, herself a first-class novelist, says about it, or Margie Myers Culver, an educator, and you'll see why I was pleasantly surprised, and of course, as an artist who had stood up to the philistines, vindicated, not least by the fact that there are thousands of people who do get what I was expressing. If anyone on this forum wants an ebook copy of IDITAROD to see what they're talking about, don't worry about buying it, my publisher gives my friends copies on request; just drop email to info [at] coolmainpress dot com.
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby RajeshS » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:00 pm

Thank you Andre for your kind words
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Alitogata » Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:10 pm

Andre Jute wrote:3. Also, though this may feed your insecurity, It's arrogant to think you really know, definitively and exhaustively, at the forefront of your brain, what you want to express. There is every likelihood that what you actually express on the paper is what your subconscious wants you to express.[...].


You've put me in thoughts with what you said about subconscious and perhaps you are right. ( can't confirm.. don't know). Many of my friends tell me that my landscapes look empty and deserted some how, that my portraits have sad and thoughtful eyes and that I make male portraits more masculine and aggressive than the models really look like. If I take into account what they say, obviously my subconscious make the rules and not me..

Do you think that I might need a psychologist?? ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaa :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby RajeshS » Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:19 pm

Good reviews Andre :) I went thru both

I said this earlier - you remain the only person I "know" - who's good at a zillion things! I still can't get over the fact that you made vacuum amps!!

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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby Andre Jute » Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:07 pm

RajeshS wrote:Good reviews Andre :) I went thru both.


Drop email to info@coolmainpress.com and they'll send you a coupon so you can get a free copy readable in whatever reader you prefer, including on your PC.

RajeshS wrote:I said this earlier - you remain the only person I "know" - who's good at a zillion things! I still can't get over the fact that you made vacuum amps!!


Ha! I don't necessarily start out good at all. In fact, in the case of vacuum tube amps, I imagine someone who just starts working with 600-1500V of DC won't survive to tell of his recklessness (too much on the other side of "artistic insecurity", heh-heh!). Here's a short account originally published in Glass Audio of how I educated myself: http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/JUT ... 20RDH.html If you're thinking of a vacuum tube amp, and you're an engineer with soldering skills and a good Cat II or III DVM already, it's possible to start at the top but extremely economically with a very high-class amp I designed for the most discriminating students -- see the Jute-EL34-SEntry.jpg at http://www.audio-talk.co.uk/fiultra/JUT ... 20AMPS.htm -- though the loudspeaker I designed for it might give your wife a fit because, though economical to build, it is huuuge. But a wonderful cheap speaker with a tiny footprint can be built with a small driver and the inside cardboard tube of a roll of carpet; for years I built such a speaker every Christmas to broadcast Gregorian Chant across a sports field from the loft of the house we lived in then; I published instructions for calculating the length to cut the tube to but can't find them now; I'll work them up again if anyone asks.
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Re: Artistic insecurities ( ??? )

Postby mjs » Fri Nov 14, 2014 5:02 pm

Alitogata wrote:Have you ever thought that art shows the character of each individual? Something like the thing that they say about driving.
Do you think i.e that someone who is abstractive in his life will be same abstractive in his paintings, or a cornerist ( as Andre says) if in his/her life sticks with the details?


If art really does express emotion as the experts claim then how could it not reflect the personality of the artist? We are whatever it is that makes us up and I can't imagine how one could isolate the passion one puts into one's art from their own inner fires. Or, frankly, why one would want to. Wouldn't it be tragic if your work didn't reflect you? Would it really then be "your" work?
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