Watercolor demo/lesson

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Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby RajeshS » Tue Aug 23, 2016 5:18 pm

Hi,

This is not sketching - but I thought the water color style - is great to be adopted for sketching in water color

To me it was mind blowing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81w9PBZOmZ8
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Alitogata » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:34 am

For me is over hyped.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Andre Jute » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:50 am

RajeshS wrote:Hi,

This is not sketching - but I thought the water color style - is great to be adopted for sketching in water color

To me it was mind blowing!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81w9PBZOmZ8


Fabulous. I met him, more years ago than I'm willing to admit, when he was a student thinking of a career in graphic design.

PS: I think it is sketching. What Joseph Zbukvic does is working from life, although in this case a photo. All that it isn't is "urban sketching", which can never be the only definition of sketching. I hate these delimiting phrases and schools and ideologies that take on an importance greater than the images artists create. Mind you, it was amusing when Andre Breton conducted a trial to expel Salvador Dali from the Surrealists for his failure at "pure psychic automatism", that is, for thinking about what he was painting, and why (for money, of course!). A sketch is any image that isn't highly finished; when it is highly finished it becomes a painting.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Alitogata » Sat Sep 10, 2016 1:06 pm

Andre Jute wrote:[...] A sketch is any image that isn't highly finished; when it is highly finished it becomes a painting.


According to this reasoning I probably have to pack my things and get out of here as according to what others have told to me, my sketches are way too finished.. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Andre Jute » Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:30 pm

Alitogata wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:[...] A sketch is any image that isn't highly finished; when it is highly finished it becomes a painting.


According to this reasoning I probably have to pack my things and get out of here as according to what others have told to me, my sketches are way too finished.. :lol: :lol:


Heh-heh! If you take the whole thing to its logical absurdity, you can only be a sketcher on street corners and (maybe) on underground trains.

+++
In that Joseph Zbukvic video that Rajesh found, notice how often Zbukvic refers to the fact that speed is essential to his way of painting. Speed isn't the only defining factor of a sketch (and nor is it solely a characteristic of sketches -- in figure drawing for instance it is a pressure-training tool), but it is a good guide. A speedy oil sketch for studio/rainy day reference is for instance the initial purpose behind the invention of the -- originally small -- pochade box, which has now grown into a fat tool for middlesized work of an entirely different nature, almost a raison d'etre of its own, complete with what looks suspiciously like an ideology and an order of priests.

Zbubvic also refers to the tension between the need for speed and the need in watercolor, which doesn't reward reworking like oils, for thinking time, so that you have to know what you intend to do and how to achieve it before you start, because once you wet the paper you're committed.

That's also one of the reasons for watercolour being intrinsically more difficult than oil painting. I have a whole bunch of 6x8 oils made in my Jullian thumb box waiting for finishing details or total reworking. If they were watercolours, I couldn't touch them again without first accepting that I might ruin as many as every second one.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Alitogata » Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:55 am

Andre Jute wrote:In that Joseph Zbukvic video that Rajesh found, notice how often Zbukvic refers to the fact that speed is essential to his way of painting. Speed isn't the only defining factor of a sketch (and nor is it solely a characteristic of sketches -- in figure drawing for instance it is a pressure-training tool), but it is a good guide. A speedy oil sketch for studio/rainy day reference is for instance the initial purpose behind the invention of the -- originally small -- pochade box, which has now grown into a fat tool for middlesized work of an entirely different nature, almost a raison d'etre of its own, complete with what looks suspiciously like an ideology and an order of priests.

Zbubvic also refers to the tension between the need for speed and the need in watercolor, which doesn't reward reworking like oils, for thinking time, so that you have to know what you intend to do and how to achieve it before you start, because once you wet the paper you're committed.

That's also one of the reasons for watercolour being intrinsically more difficult than oil painting. I have a whole bunch of 6x8 oils made in my Jullian thumb box waiting for finishing details or total reworking. If they were watercolours, I couldn't touch them again without first accepting that I might ruin as many as every second one.


I disagree on all levels and dimensions, horizontally, vertically and diagonally with what Zbukvic says.
As you said speed is essential for HIS painting style.. NOT by any means for every other painting style.
I paint f.e with the speed I'm comfortable with and never had any issues on that matter. If the paper dries there are ways to rewet it without damaging your colours ( on the underside) and who said that watercolours can't be reworked? And who says that all artists work wet in wet at the very end?

Honestly now Andre I'm sick and tired reading such generalizations about watercolours. That is the most difficult medium, and that is not reworkable and that you have to work speedy and that only artists grade colours can make a decent work.. nonsenses upon nonsenses.

Watercolours is one of the easiest media to start with, that is the reason why we give watercolours to children to paint with. Oils are the next easiest medium but is second in the list because it is messy and takes centuries to dry not to mention that you need a huge studio to work with oils, and smells due to the solvents that are needed to work with them etc etc etc. Very messy thing.. that is the reason why I abandoned working with oils.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Andre Jute » Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:07 am

Alitogata wrote:Honestly now Andre I'm sick and tired reading such generalizations about watercolours. That is the most difficult medium, and that is not reworkable and that you have to work speedy and that only artists grade colours can make a decent work.. nonsenses upon nonsenses.


I didn't say any of that. What I did say is far more nuanced than the absolutes you're shadow-boxing against.

Alitogata wrote:Oils ... because it is messy and takes centuries to dry not to mention that you need a huge studio to work with oils, and smells due to the solvents that are needed to work with them etc etc etc. Very messy thing.. that is the reason why I abandoned working with oils.


I sketch in oils with zero mess and no smells. It's just a matter of putting your mind in gear in choosing your paints and tools. I don't use brushes, I don't use turpentine or thinners, I don't even have an oily rag, because I wipe my silicon colour shapers and teflon non-stain or stainless steel painting knives with a piece of kitchen roll, and the walnut oil I use is measured out from an eyedropper directly onto the paint, mostly already on the canvas.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Alitogata » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:06 am

Andre Jute wrote:I didn't say any of that. What I did say is far more nuanced than the absolutes you're shadow-boxing against.


I didn't say that you say that either. Zbukvic and other of his kind say such things. And generally the main trends are those I described you above.


I sketch in oils with zero mess and no smells. It's just a matter of putting your mind in gear in choosing your paints and tools. I don't use brushes, I don't use turpentine or thinners, I don't even have an oily rag, because I wipe my silicon colour shapers and teflon non-stain or stainless steel painting knives with a piece of kitchen roll, and the walnut oil I use is measured out from an eyedropper directly onto the paint, mostly already on the canvas.


Good for you.. The majority of sketchers though doesn't work this way.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby RajeshS » Wed Sep 14, 2016 6:37 pm

Hi,

Interesting discussion!

I originally posted the link as not being linked to "sketching" because I somehow mentally thought sketching was "small sized"! I probably made another incorrect "generalization" of a "sketch"!

However - his painting style looked to me as suitable for "watercolor sketching" that many of us here on the forum use. And hence the post.

There were some tips there that I could use and hence shared for others like me. For example darkening the colors as we approach the foreground to produce depth. His use of "nails" to mark out lines on the wet paint - something I've not yet tried - but want to some day.

Now that I am back in India - I did a couple of sketches today - will post them sometime!
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby Andre Jute » Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:06 pm

Zbukvic certainly gathers reactions right across the spectrum. Adds a bit of spice to the discussion. Thanks for the link, Rajesh; I was very happy to be reminded of him.
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Re: Watercolor demo/lesson

Postby mjs » Sat Oct 08, 2016 10:07 pm

I think it very fortunate that we are able to experience the skills, passions, attitudes, styles, working preferences of a great many talented artists. That we don't all work the same ways with the same materials and the same ideas is what makes art so exciting and moving and interesting.

That said, I like the Australian TV series this episode is taken from. It can be very inspiring and as a native American English speaker I get to learn a whole new language in the bargain! :)

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