Alitogata's Sketches

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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Andre Jute » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:15 pm

Alitogata wrote:I couldn't figure out what was going on with her hair too. She wears a veil caught with the band in her forehead but what is going on under her chin? Has she caught her hair under it? What sort of hairdo was this? :?:


Back then it was thought immodest to display your hair (early Islamic fundie influence!), and women wore a cap tied under the chin.
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Andre Jute » Mon Oct 24, 2016 5:29 pm

Alitogata wrote:And another thing.. ( I remember them one after the other).
The draped blue cloth is some sort of half wore overcoat. She wears it only on her left side but Da Vinci had some sort of obsession with half wore clothes. Most of his figures wear clothes this way and their shoulders and sleeves have different colours. I don't know if this was some sort of odd fashion or he did it in purpose for his paintings...


Gee, now that you mention it... Leonardo was homosexual and I've noticed that many homosexuals in our own time dress women to make them look ridiculous (I discussed it with a few of the couturier when I was in advertising and some admitted it). In Leonardo's time his patrons (he hired out as a military engineer) would have had a court jester that dressed in what you call "half-wore clothes", much like jockeys dress today. Or perhaps it was the height of fashion, or perhaps some kinds of cloth was too expensive to wear on both sides of the body. Or perhaps it was the dye (lapis lazuli was expensively and dangerously imported from Constantinople at this time) that was expensive.

But you should welcome the fashion, if it was that, or Leonardo's prejudice, if it was that, for it gives you a double chance to show off your skills, once on the blue shoulder, once on the embrodered red shoulder.

I ordered tubes of Schmincke gold and silver after seeing your painting; you're an inspiration, Marialena; my teacher is spinning in his grave, but I'll say you made me do it.
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:20 pm

Andre Jute wrote:
Alitogata wrote:I couldn't figure out what was going on with her hair too. She wears a veil caught with the band in her forehead but what is going on under her chin? Has she caught her hair under it? What sort of hairdo was this? :?:


Back then it was thought immodest to display your hair (early Islamic fundie influence!), and women wore a cap tied under the chin.


Certainly but she doesn't seem to wear a cap or something. It look like her hair are tied under her chin because her veil is transparent with a gold embroidered trimming at the edges. Check the original on wikipedia ( that was the photo I use) that is in HR and you'll see it. :)
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:39 pm

Andre Jute wrote:
Alitogata wrote:And another thing.. ( I remember them one after the other).
The draped blue cloth is some sort of half wore overcoat. She wears it only on her left side but Da Vinci had some sort of obsession with half wore clothes. Most of his figures wear clothes this way and their shoulders and sleeves have different colours. I don't know if this was some sort of odd fashion or he did it in purpose for his paintings...


Gee, now that you mention it... Leonardo was homosexual and I've noticed that many homosexuals in our own time dress women to make them look ridiculous (I discussed it with a few of the couturier when I was in advertising and some admitted it). In Leonardo's time his patrons (he hired out as a military engineer) would have had a court jester that dressed in what you call "half-wore clothes", much like jockeys dress today. Or perhaps it was the height of fashion, or perhaps some kinds of cloth was too expensive to wear on both sides of the body. Or perhaps it was the dye (lapis lazuli was expensively and dangerously imported from Constantinople at this time) that was expensive.

But you should welcome the fashion, if it was that, or Leonardo's prejudice, if it was that, for it gives you a double chance to show off your skills, once on the blue shoulder, once on the embrodered red shoulder.

I ordered tubes of Schmincke gold and silver after seeing your painting; you're an inspiration, Marialena; my teacher is spinning in his grave, but I'll say you made me do it.


I didn't use any gold or silver colours at all. I made the embroidered sleeves with waterproof white ink ( the Kuretake 30 ) applied with a dip pen and then I glazed these whites with Gamboge yellow. In the beginning I had masked these areas but the paper absorbed the useless Talens masking fluid ( awful thing.. don't ever buy it.. it is awful, stains the paper but doesn't seal it) so then I had to paint over it and make the embroideries on top of the watercolours the way I described you.

I agree about gay fashion designers. Not only they don't want women to look feminine by choosing anorexic models, but also push some fashion trends that don't compliment women at all.
As for Leonardo.. I don't know if he was homosexual but he was experimenting a lot and he had his own drawing issues ( plus the double coloured sleeves). I think that this is the reason why he made his Last Supper the way he made it. I mean not working a fresco that needs to be fast and accurate and afterwards refine the details a secco, but with oils on a primed wall. As it was expected as soon as the wall got some dampness, the oil paints peeled off. ( oil on water ).

I would like to work on frescoes. But I don't have any wall available not to mention that my landlady will evict me if she suspects me mixing plaster inside the house.. :lol: But I think that now I have become fast enough to work with fresco on walls. If I had the budget I would definitely go to attend a workshop in Florence. ( they have some very interesting workshops at their school of arts there, but they are a "bit" costly!! )
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Mon Oct 24, 2016 6:43 pm

I will re scan the painting to have a better image at least for my web site... :| I don't like the way it turned out. The original doesn't look this way at all. :|
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:20 am

Ok.. I made up my mind at last.
I'm moving to botanical paintings and illustrations.
Bellow are some attempts that I made on my new Neochart dedicated for this purpose sketchbooks ( Yes.. I bought another one as I filled with sketches the one that I had before).

Pomegranate - Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 8-4-2017.jpg
Pomegranate - Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 8-4-2017.jpg (201.61 KiB) Viewed 261 times


Olives and Olive leafs- Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 8-4-2017.jpg
Olives and Olive leafs- Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 8-4-2017.jpg (209.51 KiB) Viewed 261 times


Olive leafs- Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 10-4-2017.jpg
Olive leafs- Watercolour Botanical Sketch- Artist Marialena Sarris- © 10-4-2017.jpg (104.2 KiB) Viewed 261 times


As for the illustrations I had a quite simple thought the other day that I really don't know why I didn't have it earlier ( am I stupid or something?) . Why do I have to paint botanicals at 1:1 size and struggle with the details if I can make them larger? Is there any particular reason to paint at 1:1 size? Nope.. So I'm currently painting a couple of botanicals on huge papers and I really like it. In fact I have a great time not having to use a magnifying glass in order to paint tiny brushstrokes.
I'm currently working on two different botanicals. The one is going fine the other one... hm so and so.. :lol: When I'll finish them I'll post them on my website and nowhere else because I'm sick and tired with the out of any limit arbitrary copying of my paintings on the worst websites imaginable. :roll: ( imagine that I found one of my starry skies hotlinked on a porn website!!! What the heck are these people thinking? :?: :roll: :lol: :lol:)
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Russ » Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:03 pm

Wow, that white highlight on the first one is perfect!
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Andre Jute » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:56 pm

That pomegranate really makes me want to eat what I know from experience is a pretty useless and frustrating fruit.

These botanicals are beautiful, but I think you're a bit wasted on them, since you do such exceptional portraits and architecturals and landscapes and everything. (Of course, your teachers must also take a bow. Solid fundamentals show through, and I wish a few more aspiring painters would spend a few years as a graphic designer acquiring hard, transferable skills and attitudes.) You've really got it together, Marialena.

Still on the subject of botanicals, on Sunday a book of large printed but handcoloured botanicals (several times life-size), a dozen prints altogether, was valued at £15000 on Antiques Roadshow (a British TV program on which members of the public can bring their treasures to be valued by auctioneers who are ezperts in various fields) so there is definitely a market.

"Leaves", not "leafs". You should edit it to be correct wherever it appears. I think it was Tom Wolfe who observed that the words around a painting are as important to the buyer as the content and quality of the painting.

How did you make the highlights on the pomegranate? Are they wax resists, the white one direct to paper, the pale greens below over a glaze? (I remember you said the Talens masque you have is useless. The W&N masque I use is a good mask -- doesn't stain the paper, actually masks, rubs off clean with a thumb -- but it is a pain to apply anywhere near precisely, which I imagine would matter a lot more to you than to me, but I do have the odd occasion, for instance it would have been good here
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2163&start=105#p19634
to be able to make very thin reserved highlights on the lower edges of the dark bottom parts of the bladelike leaves, which is impossible with W&N masque.)
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:15 pm

I don't know if I am wasted with the botanicals Andre, but I don't find anything else so interesting and challenging at least for the moment. I was never that good in landscapes; but I don't see that many landscapes in order to be good at them. I don't live I mean at any picturesque rural area in order to be inspired or see anything interesting.

The portraits have become something of a standard. If I see an interesting face I paint it, if I have a commission portrait I paint it too. In any case they don't have any particular difficulties for me any more and so I don't learn anything by making more portraits unless I decide to change my painting style and experiment with them. But I'm not in the mood to do so.

What makes me feel not that good is that I have the Starry Skies series here and I haven't been able to fine a single art gallery to exhibit them and to sell them of course. :(

"Leaves" is the right word but then again it doesn't really matter because these are just a few sketches that I made for practice and I have no intention to sell them anywhere, because then I will not have anything to use as a reference for my ( any) progress on the botanicals.

The highlights of the pomegranate were done with Kuretake Zig Opaque ink. The sketchbook that I'm using for these botanicals doesn't have that strong paper to hold masking fluid.
This is an ink that is used from illustrators for corrections when they work with black ink and it is extremely opaque and white. It is waterproof after it dries and so it can be used as an alternative of masking fluid for the areas that you don't want to cover completely with watercolours. It can be glazed though, ( but not covered completely after it dries) and so when I want to make tiny details in a certain colour I draw them first with this ink and then I glaze them with my watercolours at the colour that I want them to be.

That was the way I made the embroidered details of the clothes of my Cecilia Gallerani. There was no other way to reserve them with any sort of masking fluid. I tried it, but it didn't work because masking fluids can't be applied precisely on the paper at least not as thin lines and such tiny details.

I'm not a purist on the other hand to break my nerves trying to reserve the whites of the paper on such things.

Another thing that I do with this ink is to highlight the already preserved highlights of the paper and that because this ink dries mat and so you can't distinguish it from the surface of the paper if you have applied it evenly of course .
And the highlighting of the highlights boosts the contrast of the painting.

This ink doesn't work on beige papers though, especially if you don't add a darker background and so the background is beige and the highlights white.

As for the Talens masking fluid it ended up at the bin as it was, ( full I mean) because it didn't work and stained any paper available. I bought a Pebeo one that seems to be better; at least it doesn't stain the Strathmore 500 Mixed Media paper that I use for the finished paintings. It is the light blue one.
From all masking fluids it seems that the W&N ( that I have used on the Night Skies) is the one that it works better. But is not always available at the local stores not to mention that I currently buy my supplies from an online store that is at Thessaloniki, because the Athenian ones have too "posh" artistic prices..! I'm not intended to pay them double prices when I can find the same stuff elsewhere cheaper. No mercy by my side for those who overprice art materials because they think that all are hobbyists who don't have a clue about the prices on such stuff.
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Wed Apr 26, 2017 4:20 pm

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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Andre Jute » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:18 pm

You're an angel for sharing your secrets with us, Marialena.

I was showing Roz your Cecilia Gallerani only last night and wondering whether that was painted huge to get the details.

I'll try the white inks I have and see if any of them work in the manner you describe; none of the fine art pushers I use stock the Kuretaki Zig Opaque White Ink. If none of those I have works, I'll call the suppliers to the printers, graphic designers and architects tomorrow.
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:12 pm

There's no need to turn the world upside down to get this ink.
You can buy it from the store I buy it.

http://www.arttime.gr/index.php?route=p ... t_id=21838

Click on the upper right corner to turn the page into English, open a client account and buy it. It is an online store and they ship in Europe too.
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby mpainter » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:47 pm

Just love the pomegranate!
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Alitogata » Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:44 pm

Can I have your opinion about this please?

Peony Flower- Watercolour Botanical Illustration- Artist Marialena Sarris-© .14-7-2017 .jpg
Peony Flower- Watercolour Botanical Illustration- Artist Marialena Sarris-© .14-7-2017 .jpg (451.63 KiB) Viewed 44 times
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Re: Alitogata's Sketches

Postby Russ » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:08 pm

As I have probably said many times before, absolutely amazing!
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