Paintings (not sketches)

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Paintings (not sketches)

Postby RajeshS » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:28 am

Hi -

Recently I got some help from you'll on brushes here

I've been trying to do some paintings. Thought I'd just share with you'll what I've been upto.

Unlike what I've become so used to over last 2 years or so - this took some getting used to: Done from photographs, on a much larger paper 12x9 inches, traditional brushes and no pen :)

I guess it must have taken about two hours max for each. For both I had to take breaks between washes. So you can see it is significant departure from my normal sketching - but it feels good to be able to do this

rajesh

The Pune University. I took a few photographs then selected one to do this
Pune Univ Building-Small.jpg
Pune Univ Building-Small.jpg (179.72 KiB) Viewed 3071 times


Some houses in a coastal area called Konkan. This was a stock photo
The houses came out all tilted!! I even inclined the scan a little - still you see the houses inclined. I have to improve my drawing - I often draw lines that are slanted! :oops:
Konkan houses - small.jpg
Konkan houses - small.jpg (216.05 KiB) Viewed 3071 times
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Andre Jute » Tue Oct 15, 2013 12:48 pm

This is excellent, Rajesh. Never mind the slant, which I don't even see, it adds interest and "realism", if you grasp why its appearance (as distinct from actual photorealism) is important even in an impressionistic painting. Also, those years as a small-scale sketcher are clearly paying off big for you.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby RajeshS » Tue Oct 15, 2013 4:00 pm

Thanks Andre

Andre Jute wrote: if you grasp why its appearance...is important
It is exactly this that I am trying to learn now :) Interesting that you are able to catch that!

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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby mike » Tue Oct 15, 2013 5:34 pm

Well I don't usually comment on colour but the light is very different in India also at this larger scale the subtlety with which you handle the paint to get the impressionistic effect is fully obvious & is lovely.

Andrea -Could I ask you just expand a bit on your appearance as distinct from photo reference comment ? I don't understand it but it sounds very interesting.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Andre Jute » Tue Oct 15, 2013 6:27 pm

mike wrote:Andrea -Could I ask you just expand a bit on your appearance as distinct from photo reference comment ? I don't understand it but it sounds very interesting.


It's those closures in the mind I was talking about elsewhere. The image isn't only in the sketcher's mind, it is also in the viewers mind, as some manner of expectation. But you don't have to give him the full picture, just enough elements of it to complete in his mind. And, I suspect, though I'd probably need a grant in the millions to prove it (if there are any institutions out there reading this thread, research into perceptual closures of incomplete messages in artistic communication could be a valuable contribution to peace on earth, and my Nobel Prize), that the less you give the viewer that is nevertheless enough for completion, the happier he is. However, you must not offer any jarring notes. These two things together, enough hints to complete an expected picture, and the absence of jarring notes, is the appearance of reality Rajesh and I already have an understanding about. A short way of saying this is that, if you don't get anything else wrong, you really don't need observational drawing; you may even connect better without it.

In a perverse way this also explains why attempts at photorealism so often disturb rather than please: they leave no scope for the imagination and, worse, very bad indeed, they force a particular interpretation on the viewer; the next step is instinctive hands-up obstruction and then resentment.

In a large sense it thus the imperfections, like the line that is not quite vertical that Rajesh mentioned a few posts back, that create attraction, even credibility, in short, reality if not realism.
Last edited by Andre Jute on Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby mike » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:44 pm

Thanks Andrea ,Oh yes now I know partly at least what you're saying, leaving well chosen visual clues to act as a springboard for the viewer to complete the picture with their own imagination & find more satisfaction through the process than if it had been more explicit. I've long been interested in this approach, impressionistic working methods seems to be the obvious way to succeed at this allied with suggestive economical mark making.
This much I get but how does the line that is not quite vertical ,that creates ( negative ?) attraction also create credibility? & how would non-observational work better aid credibility ? Does the vertical that is off a bit not threaten to create a jarring note ?
In my present understanding these two comments appear to contradict the aim to create credibility - I'm obviously missing something here ,I'm intrigued .
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Andre Jute » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:40 pm

mike wrote: {...} but how does the line that is not quite vertical ,that creates ( negative ?) attraction also create credibility? & how would non-observational work better aid credibility ? Does the vertical that is off a bit not threaten to create a jarring note ?
In my present understanding these two comments appear to contradict the aim to create credibility - I'm obviously missing something here ,I'm intrigued .


The line that is too perfect looks like a tracing; instant zero credibility. It is amazing how often you hear comments from users of the camera lucida, an optical perspective drawing aid David Hockney thinks was in common use by the Old Masters, that the lines are too perfect, that the tool should be used to establish a few true relationships with the rest filled in freehand. A little off the true vertical, a small wobble, establishes that the line was drawn by a human -- voila, credibility; too much looks incompetent.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby mike » Tue Oct 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Ah yes of course I see what you mean now, thanks for explaining that.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby RajeshS » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:24 am

Andre Jute wrote:...that the less you give the viewer that is nevertheless enough for completion, the happier he is. However, you must not offer any jarring notes.


This is a very good lesson. It is a good development track for me - I think I am going to hold this lesson and see if I can make some progress

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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Russ » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:52 am

Wow, these are amazing. I love how you did the leaves in the foreground.
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Russ » Wed Oct 16, 2013 9:59 am

Andre Jute wrote:In a perverse way this also explains why attempts at photorealism so often disturb rather than please: they leave no scope for the imagination and, worse, very bad indeed, they force a particular interpretation on the viewer; the next step is instinctive hands-up obstruction and then resentment.


I agree. I can't look at photo realistic paintings for very long, maybe because there's nothing left for my imagination to fill in. I also cringe a little when I think of all the hours of painstaking work that went into them. Just my biased opinion...
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby mike » Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:58 pm

I've long had a interest in this issue of what to put in & what to leave out a drawing - I first heard it expressed (rather well I thought) in the book ," The Art & Technique of Pen Drawing " by G. Montague Ellwood . I read the book at an impressionable time in my art "career" & still ponder on its full implications, years later.
The point is brought up in the chapter on style, he asserts that an artist should make no conscious effort at developing a style but instead just draw the object straight & honestly letting his intuition select the essential & non essential.
Book Extract.png
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Here is the page on google books should you wish to see the comment in context or read an interesting pen book for its own sake
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hfKu ... &q&f=false
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby e.larsen » Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:33 am

These are great! I hadn't noticed the slanted lines either. If it bothers you, trim the paper to a new true and the foliage will lean which not even you will notice after a while.

Love this work.
my sketching blog is at: http://www.etagelarsen.com/blog/
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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby RajeshS » Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:26 am

Thank you Russ - Eric - Mike!

Posting picture and painting - for comparison

Univ-C.jpg
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KH-C.jpg
KH-C.jpg (192.3 KiB) Viewed 3019 times


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Re: Paintings (not sketches)

Postby Andre Jute » Thu Oct 17, 2013 6:13 pm

I must say, I like your paintings so much better than the photographs, Rajesh, not least because of the factors we were just discussing. You got the essence of those scenes, and it is pointless to worry overly much about "getting realistic details" like perfect perspective and suchlike, except in the strictly technical sense that those less well practised than you have to master perspective etc before they can become its master.
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