The endless project (contains e-nudity)

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The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Tue Jan 14, 2014 11:38 pm

Greetings all,
I am still crushed under my massive project. I wish I could be done with it. Maybe this year!
Here is a sample from the manual which accompanies the dvd. The manual is about 150 pages. The dvd is about 2 hours. Additional content will make the dvd longer.
All of these illustrations are taken from animations in the dvd. In the dvd, the topography lines are flowing over the arm to help appreciate separate anatomical structures just below the skin.
I built all props and effects and substantially modified all characters. You would never recognize them from the original characters from Poser. The muscle overlays were "painted" in Photoshop.

This training package is all about measuring, which is a grueling, horrible topic. Artistic people tend not to embrace this unpoetic part of picture making, but many will at some point realize that learning it might get them over a creative impasse. Hopefully, the images will be pretty enough to overcome the sleep inducing words.

Everyone cross your fingers that this will be done in 2014!
Then watch for a sketching explosion!

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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby mdmattin » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:08 am

We miss you, Rebecca! I'm looking forward to seeing you back on Sketch Forum, and getting your DVD so I can take my figure drawing to the next level.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:52 am

mdmattin wrote:We miss you, Rebecca! I'm looking forward to seeing you back on Sketch Forum, and getting your DVD so I can take my figure drawing to the next level.
Matthew

Thanks, Matthew. I wonder if just watching and reading this will improve typical figure drawing situations... The dvd is mainly about long pose figure drawing -- like 20 hours on the same pose, four hours per day, five days in a row, where beginners take three days to measure. It takes me about 1 1/2 hours to measure using the same method.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby mike » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:47 am

Hi Rebecca, that certainly does look like an in depth project.
I don't know how much of the body you will be covering with the detailed contour lines & underlying muscles that you've shown in these example pictures
(A & B) but if you are covering the whole body of both sexes, such clear drawing would be of great interest to sculptors as well as 2D artists.(just thinking of potential markets)
BTW. there's a Typo half way down " subcurve Slop "
Thanks for showing what you're up to - most interesting, the human body in art done thoroughly like this is indeed a daunting task!
Keep up the good work, Mike
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby RajeshS » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:45 pm

:( Yes Rebecca - this sketching forum family misses you. Those cat sketches, figure drawings, doorways and simple lamp-posts - everything had this grandiose - which served as tonic for people like me

I think this project shows your "nature" - you either do it right or you don't do it. We all wish you the very best.

BTW are you working on your own - or as a small "team" on this project? Is it co-authored and entirely conceived and executed by you?

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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:03 pm

mike wrote:Hi Rebecca, that certainly does look like an in depth project.
I don't know how much of the body you will be covering with the detailed contour lines & underlying muscles that you've shown in these example pictures
(A & B) but if you are covering the whole body of both sexes, such clear drawing would be of great interest to sculptors as well as 2D artists.(just thinking of potential markets)
BTW. there's a Typo half way down " subcurve Slop "
Thanks for showing what you're up to - most interesting, the human body in art done thoroughly like this is indeed a daunting task!
Keep up the good work, Mike

Hi Mike,
I can imagine how contour lines over whole bodies with illustrations of muscles, tendons, bone and fat would be of interest, however, my e-models lack complete fidelity, so the contour lines would be misleading. Also, everything changes when joints flex or extend. Crumpling erases hints of muscle, while rolling skin dominates. Anyway, all of this goes beyond the scope of the topic, which is measuring the posing nude. That said, I did make a contour model of the face. I'm posting it here.

A typo? Which word? I confess, "subcurve" is sort of coined by me, because I couldn't bring myself to hyphenate "sub-curve" throughout the book. If you mean "slop", did you think I meant "slope"?

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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:27 pm

RajeshS wrote:...I think this project shows your "nature" - you either do it right or you don't do it... are you working on your own - or as a small "team" on this project? Is it co-authored and entirely conceived and executed by you?

Well, I think of it differently... I needed to convey some difficult material, most of it has never before been codified. I reach each concept open-minded about how I will explain/demonstrate it. I try something, it might not communicate the concept... So I try another way until something works. It would be pointless to put all of this work into a measuring solution that I could not support by words and demonstration. I don't stop when it isn't right -- I keep going until it is. There is never really a choice in advance not to do something. When I believe I can do something, I begin. And then, I finish. Whenever.

This is entirely of my doing. My original concept, my execution, my writing. It'll be my voice, and in some cases, even my music. My husband, who is not an artist, is checking clarity. It's good to have a second opinion.

I jokingly call this my "PhD dissertation", only I don't have an adviser, and I don't get a degree.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby mike » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Yes, I thought you meant slope with the "e". I don't understand what slop means in this context.
Of course you are right about contour lines never being able to tell the whole truth as a device to illustrate the complex shapes of the body .
There are so many factors influencing the shape of a human body - aside of movement / balance / load bearing changing everything constantly ,age/ skeletal flexibility & muscle strength play a big part in posture & movement. Then what about emotional state , the variations are never ending !!!!!!
What a work like yours can hope to achieve is an understanding of the appearance of a body & the underlying reasons for that appearance, armed with that knowledge an artist cannot fail to improve their "seeing" of the body in front of their eyes.
It is surely the most daunting of tasks to draw a human not only because of the complexity & ever changing shapes but the fact that fellow humans are able look upon the drawing & intuitively assess it on many levels in a way that isn't possible with any other subject matter.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Thu Jan 16, 2014 10:50 pm

mike wrote:Yes, I thought you meant slope with the "e". I don't understand what slop means in this context.

Oh. Hmm. Around here, people have been letting me get away with saying, "There is a lot of slop in those marks...," "Sloppy job," "Tighten that slop up..."
Anyone else, does the word "slop" fail to communicate for you? I imagine there are more words like this embedded in my language. <sigh>

Of course you are right about contour lines never being able to tell the whole truth as a device to illustrate the complex shapes of the body .
There are so many factors influencing the shape of a human body - aside of movement / balance / load bearing changing everything constantly ,age/ skeletal flexibility & muscle strength play a big part in posture & movement. Then what about emotional state , the variations are never ending !!!!!!

The last chapter introduces some of these issues in order to target desirable parts while measuring. Interesting you mentioned that. Hopefully, people will feel their questions are being heard.

What a work like yours can hope to achieve is an understanding of the appearance of a body & the underlying reasons for that appearance, armed with that knowledge an artist cannot fail to improve their "seeing" of the body in front of their eyes.

Exactly. That's the goal.

It is surely the most daunting of tasks to draw a human not only because of the complexity & ever changing shapes but the fact that fellow humans are able look upon the drawing & intuitively assess it on many levels in a way that isn't possible with any other subject matter.

One more time, you got it. I have this, urr, "argument", in the Introduction.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby mdmattin » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:05 pm

IMO, "slop" is perfectly good word but somewhat colloquial, especially when used as a synonym for "inaccurate," because that sense is itself derived from casual jargon used in technical fields involving precision or close tolerances. So, appearing in the same clause as "minimal impact," which sounds pretty darn official, it's not surprising if it seems out of place. Either "Minor inaccuracies in subcurves will have minimal impact" or "Subcurve slop is no big deal" would be internally consistent. Or maybe it's a good thing to break down those categories!

As far as the benefit of your DVD to someone who is not likely to be able to do figure drawing 20 hours on the same pose, four hours per day, five days in a row any time soon, I still hope that I would learn a way of looking that could transfer to other situations. My current life group does poses of max 45 minutes or sometimes ninety by combining two sessions. Do you suppose I could practice measuring by zooming on a small area and trying to really nail it in the time allowed?

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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:07 am

mdmattin wrote:IMO, "slop" is perfectly good word but somewhat colloquial, especially when used as a synonym for "inaccurate," because that sense is itself derived from casual jargon used in technical fields involving precision or close tolerances. So, appearing in the same clause as "minimal impact," which sounds pretty darn official, it's not surprising if it seems out of place. Either "Minor inaccuracies in subcurves will have minimal impact" or "Subcurve slop is no big deal" would be internally consistent. Or maybe it's a good thing to break down those categories!

Good heavens, Matthew! So perfectly explained! Looks like I am completely blind to my own outward expression. My bi-cultural background (scientist father/artist mother) is showing. I feel a cozy familiarity with the engineering side of picture making, so I didn't see the disconnect in word association. But you are perfectly right... Thank you!

As far as the benefit of your DVD to someone who is not likely to be able to do figure drawing 20 hours on the same pose, four hours per day, five days in a row any time soon, I still hope that I would learn a way of looking that could transfer to other situations.

My guess is, it is going to make people approach the problem with greater depth of understanding, whether or not they do it as prescribed. I believe it's going to change the way people work.
I had my sister watch an early iteration of the project. Then I had her draw a bare tree by eye, then by measuring, then she sent me the result. The measured tree was more accurate, of course, but what interested me most was her reaction to the exercise:
    -- She couldn't not be more aware, even while drawing by eye, therefore, her drawing was automatically better than previous experiences
    -- Measuring highlighted - therefore taught her about - preconceptions that distorted her drawings
    -- Measuring provided a language for discussing drawing issues
    -- She felt that at last she might be able to draw well, where before, there were insurmountable mysteries surrounding effective control
    -- She thought she would enjoy drawing again, after feeling defeated and for the most part not pursuing drawing after childhood
I suspect this reaction is going to be a common one.

My current life group does poses of max 45 minutes or sometimes ninety by combining two sessions. Do you suppose I could practice measuring by zooming on a small area and trying to really nail it in the time allowed?

There is a lot to learn about the figure by slowing down and deeply studying all of its contours. Measuring is the perfect way to enter the process. Rather than zoom in on small areas, try the largest areas first. That way, you can learn the method on the easier to capture structures. After you see the dvd, you will see how measuring skills can be used to go back into freehand drawings to make efficient corrections -- that should "improve" your short pose sketches, no matter what.
:)
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby mike » Mon Jan 20, 2014 11:11 am

Matthew may well be right about the mix of more formal language with the colloquial .
I've asked a few people I know and none of them have ever heard the term "slop" used in the UK with your meaning however we all use "sloppy" constantly in our everyday language. This is a UK/US divide !
BTW. I never had any problem with subcurve - whilst it is not a word I have ever used its' meaning seems immediately obvious.
Generally speaking there are of course differences in the way that both nations use the English language but those that there are nearly always become apparent when using the colloquial.
I wouldn't worry overly about this language divide overly if I were you , we've been watching American television for generations now & the divide between us is certainly not as wide as the Atlantic !
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby RajeshS » Mon Jan 20, 2014 5:37 pm

Me neither - Rebecca - I admit I am a non-native-English-speaking person on this forum - so my English is nothing to go by. However, I never heard "slop" before - and I think - most people like me would have thought it was an error!

Also agree with Mike - we always use "sloppy" !! How ironic is this!

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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:57 pm

Mike and Rajesh, this is very helpful feedback.
My husband the editor, who is a grammar and English nerd, disagreed with Matthew's comments (although he didn't say how), but was concerned about the fact that "slop" was unknown to UK folk. And now Rajesh, you never heard of "slop", either. Damn, it made good alliteration... subcurve slop. C'est la vie.
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Re: The endless project (contains e-nudity)

Postby Rebecca » Mon Apr 07, 2014 11:12 pm

Here is another set of (preliminary) images for the manual -- these are taken from the appendix, which covers additional information about figure and portrait drawing.
These support a discussion about circle based form conceptions in and around the eye.

I modeled and textured the 3D eye for the video, and it came in handy for a separate discussion in the manual appendix.

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